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jeffw

11-27-2005, 08:27 PM

So i got a newer sata rp200 non digital. and my clear has never been better. i know you can spray with a 100 gun i did it for a while and now that im getting paid to put paint down for other people i went with the best. I didn't expect to see so much of a diffrence.. i would highly reccomend any sata gun or high end gins for that matter. if your doing a show stopping paint job this gun will help you look like a pro. to bad the cost as much as they do.

jeff

Dennis N. Schmidt

11-27-2005, 10:42 PM

I've just counted them, since I had lost track, and I've got 13 SATA guns. That stated I will never buy another one. I have finally gotten tired of being banged in the can by these guys and refuse to take it anymore. The last straw was an adapter that I was forced to buy to enable me to use my overpriced MiniJet II cups on my new MiniJet 4 which uses the useless QCC cup the sole purpose of which is to force you to use SATA's cups. This adapter, which as an engineer I can guarantee you can be made on a screw machine for less than 25 cents cost $33.00. What a complete crock!!!

It's true that there stuff does work well. But so does DeVilbiss' stuff at half the cost and both the DeVilbiss PLUS and the Sharpe Titanium Compliant spray every bit as well as the RP (of which I have three of the digital models, Two digital II's and one digital 1 so I know what I'm talking about in this regard). After a while you just can't accept paying $200 for a needle/nozzle kit when DeVilbiss gives you three of them for free when you buy the gun.

SATA has a right to be proud of their product but they have crossed the line to the point of arrogance and disrespect for their customers. They've extorted their last dollar out of me.

Mark from Minnesota

11-28-2005, 10:51 PM

"I have finally gotten tired of being banged in the can by these guys and refuse to take it anymore."

'banged in the can' HAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm on the floor, man!

Seriously, I have an older devilbiss plus with a 1.3 tip and I think it works very well. To be fair, I've never used anything else but a newbie like me doesn't need to fanciest gun available.

Thanks for the giggle,
-Mark from Minnesota

Yelog60

11-29-2005, 11:42 AM

I think if you work in a production shop the Sata's will take a beating longer than any other gun. They are built very well and can stand to be taken apart many times and still work flawless.. I would say if you were a hobbiest it might be over priced, but if this is what you do for a living they are worth the extra money.. They have never let me down in the 10 years I have been painting.

Jeffw5555

12-01-2005, 10:32 AM

Keep in mind that it is the market economics with SATA USA that has them charging the high prices for the little stuff. They are a small company that has a lot of overhead they need to support.

In Germany, it is the opposite. I've bought several of my SATA guns from an Autobody supply company on trips to Germany, for the same price as Devilbiss guns cost here in the states. Same thing for SATA Düsesätzen (oops, Nozzle sets!), they are reasonably priced there, but expensive here.

Here's the kicker; the shop I bought most of my SATA stuff at also carries Devilbiss, but they cost twice as much as the SATA stuff.

Jason

12-02-2005, 12:41 AM

You guys that gripe about how much Sata guns are, are the painters that are making enough money to buy them. Think about it, you painters only have to spend maybe a couple of thousand in tools...........but the bodymen on the other hand have to spend 40 thousand plus to make a living.

Also remember that our dollar in Germany is worth about 75 cents, so its the economy that drives the prices of Sata guns. As far as overhead goes......they are marking up the price to pay for their people at Dan-Am, Sata sells enough guns to pay them without having to gouge anyone.

Needle nozzle sets are expensive from Sata but they are all perfectly matched in Germany as a set. They want every Sata gun out there spraying perfectly and do a very good job at that. They have a line of people in Germany that just spray all day to make sure every set is perfect. They spray the air cap right side up and up side down and sideways. If you look at a Sata air cap, the logo is placed on the air cap for the purpose that that is the way it sprays best. Also if you look on the outside of one of the air horns there should be a number. That number represents the person that inspected that set. So if it doesn't spray perfect out of the box, it gets sent back to Germany and that person has to answer for the inperfection.

Sata's may be a little expensive but they do have a gun called the 90-2 that is the right price for the people that don't want to spend to much money but still want great quality.

As far as your rep in your area being arogant......call Dan-Am and let them know. They don't want a bad seed working for them.

TA Robinson

12-04-2005, 06:17 PM

Labor costs in Germany are one of the highest in the world:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aPDlUkxaposI&refer=germany

Jeffw5555

12-05-2005, 08:56 PM

Several years ago, I was in Stuttgart, Germany on business, and knew that the SATA factory was in a suburb just north of there. So I contacted them & asked if I could take a plant tour. They readily accepted.

They treated me like I was a royal guest; just a great group of people. (It helped that I speak some German) During the tour, I saw the line that Jason describes. EVERY gun and nozzle set is tested and tweaked for optimum performance. They fill the guns with water, and spray them against a plastic coated piece of material under special lighting to watch the atomization pattern. Most of the guns I saw needed tweaking. The operator/tester would use small needle files that they stuck in the air cap holes to change or fix the spray pattern. Each person knew exactly what type of tweak was needed to fix the spray pattern. I looked at what they were doing closely, and they obviously knew from experience much more than I could ever see, as each pattern looked the same to me. I told this to the person giving me the tour, and he explained the small anomalies to me, and they admittedly were very minor.

At the end of the tour, I was taken to the body shop area where they do the hands-on stuff, and clinics for autobody painting. Suited up, and tried out the new (at the time) RP gun, as well as a demo showing the wide input pressure forgiveness of the NR2000.

I highly doubt that any other manufacturer goes to the length of SATA to tweak each gun to ensure that the end user gets the best gun made. Since that tour, I got rid of all my other guns,and only own SATA. (OK, I still have an old Devilbiss FL that I use for latex and heavy body polyester primers)

Jeff

Dennis N. Schmidt

12-06-2005, 11:22 AM

Since I have 13 SATA guns I must either respect their quality or simply enjoy paying too much. I don’t believe the latter is the case. However, there comes a time when getting raped loses it's appeal. $500 for a spray gun, no problem I can live with that. $33 for what amounts to a bushing - No, I'm not going to take that even if it is made by little elves in a hollow tree. There stuff is very good, it may or may not be the best as Iwata's LPH400-LV, DeVilbiss' PLUS and the Sharpe Titanium Compliant spray every bit as well. Will the SATA last longer? Maybe, but then again I've never worn out any spray gun in thirty years of using them.

Yes, it's impressive that artisans tweak each N/N set, but, as an engineer if their machining line is good enough this should never be necessary. DeVilbiss uses the same needle with interchangeable nozzles and I've never had a problem of any sort because of it. Manual tweaking gives the impression of quality and craftsmanship. What I’m saying is that this might not be the true case. In semiconductor manufacturing (my profession) we have a saying: “You can’t inspect in quality.” Of all of the lessons the Japanese Juran method of manufacturing has taught us with respect to building quality products this is the most important.

sprayman

12-09-2005, 10:19 AM

I have used and do own many sata spray guns, along with devilbiss, sharpe, and just recently purchased Dura-Block's new 007 spray gun. From what I got from a reliable source, even the plants in Asia test and tweak every spray gun before it leaves. To be completely honest with everyone, I have yet to really be dissapointed with even some of the really cheap guns on the market. Some of them spray just as good. One of the big things I have noticed, and what makes a spray gun last would be the packings. There are some guns that are not gun washer safe, meaning the packings seize up. I currently spray with the Iwata LPH400 but find myself using the Dura-Block 007 more and more as it is built very well. It is the only gun in my collection that actually has titanium coated needles and fluid nozzles. I have used the gun about 20 times, sprayed 6 cars and its solid as a rock. It even comes with a rebuild kit which i have yet to use.

Len

12-09-2005, 12:29 PM

I've been using the 007 for about two months and find it to be one of the best guns I've ever used. I really like the way it comes with three different gun heads in one kit. I also like being able to remove the handle (air) portion of the gun, it makes for easier cleaning.

Have you used any of the less expensive Dura-Block GMS guns? They are also very well engineered for the price. The cup swivel is also a nice, innovative touch.

Speaking of nice touches, I've purchased a couple different color accessory kits for the 007 so that I can tell the different configurations without having to take off the air cap. Each kit comes with different color knobs and air cap.

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/db0071a.jpg
Dura-Block Guns Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=DBSG)

sprayman

12-09-2005, 09:57 PM

I have not used the other dura-block guns as this gun basically does everything I need. I guess i can say,, if the gun lasts forever, this may be the last one I buy,, quite happy. Thinking about purchasing extra heads. I found that they a 1.2mm size.

X711

01-11-2006, 11:14 PM

kenc

01-12-2006, 01:00 PM

Hi guys, I am new to the fourm and echo what dennis is saying. When it comes to sata I believe they are pricing themselves out of existance here in the united states.

I purchased a Devilbiss Plus Gun. This gun is very well made and parts are a fair price.

I like the idea that the gun comes with 3 tips and was designed to use only one needle.

I would love to see a shoot out test between the sata RP gun and the Devilbiss Plus gun. $ for $ I bet the devilbiss would win.

Hey buy american, keep the jobs at home !!!!! Remember the devil is in the details and Devilbiss have it down imho :)

Thanks... Paul.

Coincidently, a guy called JT did such a test and reported it on the old ABS forum a couple of years ago. He compared a Sata RP, Dev Plus and a Sharpe T1-CG. From memory (please feel free to correct me if you think my memory is faulty) the T1 came out tops just edgin the plus and the RP third. All three guns produced excellent results and the differences were not great BUT the T1 was the winner.
Ken

X711

01-12-2006, 04:31 PM

Hi ken, would you happen to have a link to that Shoot Out on
the guns that JT did.

Thanks... X

Len

01-12-2006, 05:15 PM

Hi ken, would you happen to have a link to that Shoot Out on
the guns that JT did.

Thanks... X

While the archives of the old forum still exist I can't give anyone access to them. I'm working on a way to have them available from this board but I haven't had any success as yet.

Stanger

01-12-2006, 06:07 PM

On the topic of the Durablock guns, has anyone used the 7003 GMS, and how does it do? I really like the price of it and from the response that the higher grade Durablock guns are getting, it seems like the 7003 GMS may be a pretty good gun as well.

Len

01-12-2006, 10:05 PM

I've been using the 7003 for about a month and it works VERY well for the price. Until the end of this month you can get an extra fluid tip for no additional cost. The GMS also comes with an inlet pressure gauge and the swivel that can be used (or not) between the cup and the gun as shown below. This is a lot of gun for the money.

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/db7003gms2.jpg

Dura-Block 7003GMS Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=DBSG)

Stanger

01-13-2006, 10:06 PM

Len

01-14-2006, 12:50 AM

Stop it Len, your really tempting me! I am going to keep researching, but that looks like a great value and would like to take advantage of the two tip offer going on. I am guessing that this gun sprays better than a Devilbiss FLG3? Also, you do carry all replacement parts for these guns, correct? Just trying to cover all of my bases here. Thank you for the advice thus far, it is really appreciated.

I've been using the Dura-Block for about a month and I've been selling them for a couple weeks. I haven't had to order any parts yet but I'm told that the warehouse has any part I need.

studebaker

01-14-2006, 01:29 PM

Len, who makes these guns? I too, am tired of the super high prices on the Sata parts and I bought the first Sata NR 95 sold in my area. Ready to consider something else.

Len

01-15-2006, 03:56 PM

The DB guns are their own design. You won't be disappointed by any of the DB guns, I've been trying them with everything from primer to base to clear and found them to perform flawlessly.

yousif

01-03-2007, 03:52 AM

mr len,

could you please let us know...who made the dura block spray gun
is it germany gun or american??

what nozzle size you use for clear and autobase

ive seen this gun on the net for long time... but no one seems
to answer me about this gun..

thank you:confused:

Len

01-03-2007, 10:10 AM

The Dura-Block guns are Chinese and they are beginning to give the high priced guns some real competition. In the picture below I'm using the 007 gun with a 1.7 tip to apply 2K primer. For base and clear I'll usually use 1.3 or 1.4 but for some thinner clears I'll use a 1.2.
I really like the cup swivel that allows you to change the cup angle to adjust to the angle that you need to hold the gun. You can see in the picture below that the swivel allows the cup to remain more straight as I spray.

467

yousif

01-04-2007, 03:12 AM

thank you len for the great information

may i ask you more questions

1. is it hvlp gun or compliant gun
2. what is the inlet pressure.. or cfm
3. max pressure at the air cap

waw nice finishing

thanks you
ga:D

7tonemonte

01-09-2007, 08:02 PM

Hello, new to the forums here. I am getting interested in the dura-block guns now from reading this. I have had my fill of the Sata guns, spent a ton of money on quite a few of them, and got no satisfaction when there were problems. I had the threads pulling out of the fluid tip portion of the gun and thier solution was for 50 bucks they would drill it out and heli-coil it. I had 4 of their guns at this point and got rid of all but a primer gun. I have since gone with a few of Devilbiss GTI guns. I do like the wide fan pattern and It has good material transfer as far as Im concerned. I was thinking of buying another, but now Im going to look further into these dura-blocks. I have seen them advertised in all the trade mags but didnt think much of it. Glad I found the forums here, seems like some worth wile info!
Tony

Len

01-10-2007, 12:07 AM