plus gun vs rp sata

[frostje]

I would like to know what is the difference in paint quality between these 2 guns. I want to get an rp I already have a plus,would like to know if it is worth it. Money is not a big deal ,I would pay for the best if it is the best?? Any answers would be helpful.:)

[ko3579]

check out the thread on the dura-block 007, its interesting.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

I've got three RP's (all digitial, 1 digital 1 and two digital 2's) and three PLUS guns. I find it impossible to tell the difference between them with respect to how the paint lays.

The SATA does have a better tactile feel. It's heavier and feels better built but I've never had a problem with any of the DeVilbiss or SATA guns.

SATA has more of less morphed into a cult type deal. They are so expensive they obviously must be the best right? Sort of like a Rolex watch. My $35 Timex keeps accurate time to within a couple seconds a month so there is nothing the Rolex could possibily do better than the Timex with respect to the fuction a watch is built for namely keeping time. However, it's a Rolex. Same with SATA.

[barthmonster]

Dennis, I've always suspected that the SATA was a great gun but achieved legendary status not because it actually painted far and away better than other guns, but because of the price, etc... Thank you for putting it into words like this for me. Probably be buying the Plus gun... I don't like paying for a name...

[gtcway]

I haven't used either one but have read alot about them. IMO I would get the Devilbiss Plus because replacement parts are much cheaper, it comes with three fluid tips and from what I've read, sprays as well as the Sata RP. I would like to get the Devilbiss Plus but don't do enough painting to justify getting another gun since I already have a Devilbiss GTI Millenium and an Iwata LPH400LV.

[barthmonster]

somewhere someone (not sure if its this forum) tells how to 'convert' a GTI to a PLUS because they are almost the same thing. Fluid tip, air cap, some such...

[86camaroman]

in my opinion since he said money isnt an issue i would get the sata just my opinion i own a sata rp digital 2 and i have found nothing that compared to the way this gun sprays clear coat i get almost no peel at all to get a perfect job all i have to do is sand with 2000 grit then buff and with the way todays new cars have orange peel i actually have to try to put peel on it to get it to match the devilbiss may be a great gun but if money isnt an issue get a sata it will last forever very high quality gun go to a store that sells both and hold sata in one hand and devilbiss in the other and honestly you can just tell by the feel wich one is more durable and the sata has the biggest spray fan i have seen

[Len]

in my opinion since he said money isnt an issue i would get the sata just my opinion i own a sata rp digital 2 and i have found nothing that compared to the way this gun sprays clear coat i get almost no peel at all to get a perfect job all i have to do is sand with 2000 grit then buff and with the way todays new cars have orange peel i actually have to try to put peel on it to get it to match the devilbiss may be a great gun but if money isnt an issue get a sata it will last forever very high quality gun go to a store that sells both and hold sata in one hand and devilbiss in the other and honestly you can just tell by the feel wich one is more durable and the sata has the biggest spray fan i have seen

Have you sprayed with the DeVilbiss Plus?

I've sprayed with both and find that the DeVilbiss produces (at least) as good a finish as the RP. While the RP may be made a little better you'll find that parts for the Satas are going to be harder to find and cost even more than they do because they are pulling their products off the web.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

To convert a GTI to a PLUS is very simple. The only change needed is the fluid nozzle (buy whichever size you think will handle the materials you'll be spraying through it) and the aircap which is the model 410 vs the 2000 aircap used on the GTI. The Fluid needle and every other part of the gun are identical. So for less than $100 your GTI has changed into a PLUS. Takes about two minutes and you're good to go.

[86camaroman]

does the devilbiss have the nice wide fan the sata has and also it may be true that it is as good a gun i really dont know but however this question is for you Len i just ordered a dura block 7003gms a couple days ago i talked to you and you seem like you know alot about spray guns and all if price was no object like he said in his first post wich gun would you buy the sata or devilbiss :)

[frostje]

i have really only sprayed my plus gun. The reason i'm asking is because I would like to know if there is any gun(if at all) for laying down paint?My plus has a nice wide pattern and covers really nice:) ,but I wonder if there is something better:rolleyes: . I guess you could say the grass is always greener on the other side. I was considering an rp digital 2,but not sure now if it is worth it.

[gtcway]

To convert a GTI to a PLUS is very simple. The only change needed is the fluid nozzle (buy whichever size you think will handle the materials you'll be spraying through it) and the aircap which is the model 410 vs the 2000 aircap used on the GTI. The Fluid needle and every other part of the gun are identical. So for less than $100 your GTI has changed into a PLUS. Takes about two minutes and you're good to go.
What would be the best tip to get to spray clear and single stage urethane? I think I might try it if I can find something to paint:)

[barthmonster]

86camaroman,

I think if you are a pro or have a big compressor I'd buy the SATA and thank you for the input. The PLUS side of the plus for a 'little-guy' compressor (or an inexperienced painter who isn't trying to paint fast) is that the Devilbiss gun only uses about 9 cfm compared to something like 15 cfm for a typical SATA. I'm leaning towards either the PLUS gun or IWATA LPH-400. If I had a bigger compressor, it would be a SATA.

[Len]

86camaroman,

I think if you are a pro or have a big compressor I'd buy the SATA and thank you for the input. The PLUS side of the plus for a 'little-guy' compressor (or an inexperienced painter who isn't trying to paint fast) is that the Devilbiss gun only uses about 9 cfm compared to something like 15 cfm for a typical SATA. I'm leaning towards either the PLUS gun or IWATA LPH-400. If I had a bigger compressor, it would be a SATA.

The RP uses 10.3 CFM so there's really not that much difference between it and the Plus as far as air consumption. The speed of the two guns is quite similar also. It's the price vs. performance that would have me going toward the DeVilbiss

[frostje]

then what I am asking is there really any other better gun for laying down paint than the plus. If the sata is even maginally better I would buy it just for the sake that it is the best. No loss to me, I just would like to own the best quality equipment for myself.:)

[barthmonster]

I'm the same way, even though its for 'hobby' use not professional I'm spoiled I like the BEST but won't pay for just a 'name' etc... Right now I'm hearing the best-ever guns for clear are SATA RP, IWATA LPH-400, and arguably the Devilbiss PLUS GFG-670. I personally for some reason am very drawn to the IWATA gun and real quick can someone tell me what cup-size to get and why??
1 liter (litre?) aluminum
700 ml aluminum (this sounds like the right one for me)
600 ml plastic

[86camaroman]

you want the best get the sata rp and always get a 1liter cup so you can make a whole round instead of having to stop half way through to fill up again trust me but iwata is top of the line as well like there airbrushes an awful lot reason i say sata if you ever decide to sell it you can get a pretty good price out of a used one check ebay and you will see that for yourself len may be correct for the price wise but if you took a poll with top painters i bet 9 out of 10 would have sata and 1 would have iwata dont take my word for it watch overhaulin or american hot rod or biker build offf all use sata :)

[Len]

you want the best get the sata rp and always get a 1liter cup so you can make a whole round instead of having to stop half way through to fill up again trust me but iwata is top of the line as well like there airbrushes an awful lot reason i say sata if you ever decide to sell it you can get a pretty good price out of a used one check ebay and you will see that for yourself len may be correct for the price wise but if you took a poll with top painters i bet 9 out of 10 would have sata and 1 would have iwata dont take my word for it watch overhaulin or american hot rod or biker build offf all use sata :)

You can bet that ANY product used on a TV show not only promotes their products by GIVING the guns to the users but they probably pay to have their guns displayed. I wouldn't judge performance on who uses what gun on TV, you should use the guns you're recommending THEN say why you recommend them.

You will also find that many larger shops are GIVEN spray guns of their choice by their paint supplier. If someone is giving you a gun they why not take the most expensive?

[86camaroman]

i know i have used the sata rp and also tons of other guns that are on the market and have yet to find one that in my opinion performs as well yes they are expensive and so are parts for them the devilbiss is prolly a great gun as well but since you have sprayed with both guns len and somebody says you can have either gun for free and parts for life for free wich gun would you take honestly the sata or the devilbiss

[Len]

i know i have used the sata rp and also tons of other guns that are on the market and have yet to find one that in my opinion performs as well yes they are expensive and so are parts for them the devilbiss is prolly a great gun as well but since you have sprayed with both guns len and somebody says you can have either gun for free and parts for life for free wich gun would you take honestly the sata or the devilbiss

If I'm getting the guns for free I'll take the most expensive one I can find but when I'm paying I try to choose more wisely.

[86camaroman]

you arent getting what i am asking if neither gun had a price tag wich one would you take

[X711]

The Plus gun.

Why, ???

It works very well. :)

Thanks X

[86camaroman]

i think we all know that if anybody had a choice of a free gun they would take the sata and not because it cost more because its a better gun cause if it wasnt a better gun people would take the plus as far as price comparison if you have to buy one people might lean towards the plus because it performs well and isnt as expensive but that does not make it a better gun if you want the best get a sata thats all there is to it if you want the best gun for the money get the plus or iwata w400 i would take the w400 personally

[frostje]

:confused: maybe I will buy both the iwata 400 lph and sata rp digital 2. :cool: Just because I am not sure and not knowing what I would like to spray with the best. I do love my plus gun. But since I'm not worried about the price these days,I guess I should,but I only have painting as a hobby, I don't worry since I have most of the equipment.:D I was told by a techpro in california who says the iwata sprays like the sata but has better control feel because it is lighter.

[gtcway]

Since money isn't a problem, buy the sata rp and the iwata lph400lv. Test them out for a while then sell the one you don't like.

[glenn kreger]

Man Camaroman for someone that says he doesn't have an agenda you sure have me fooled. If someone says that the plus is the equal to the sata in performance you say he's wrong and that the sata is the best no matter what. You must have some serious stock in the company......JMHO Glenn

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

Cameroman, I don't get SATA's for free but I do own 13 of them. So if I say the PLUS is the equal to a SATA that's because I've got both, use both, like both and strongly believe what I'm saying. If you want to buy a SATA then by all means do so but don't think that they are superior in any demonstratable way to the PLUS as they aren't. If the job is spraying paint either will do the job as well as it can be done. If the job is to make you feel good and enable you to brag to your friends that you own the best (whether or not you can see any difference in the paint) then buy a SATA. After you buy this SATA you will still have 12 fewer of them than I do so don't get too uppity about it.

I deal with this mindset every day. I live right on the border of Phoenix and
Scottsdale. The neighborhood I live in is indistinguishable from that across the street, Scottsdale Road, yet there are people who just have to have that Scottsdale address and willingly pay the extra $100,000 per home to get it even though Pulte built identical houses on either side of the street. If you've just got to have a SATA go for it, it's your money. If all you want is a great paint job either gun will do the job equally well. DeVilbiss has probably been making paint guns longer than SATA and their quality has never been questioned. My first gun was a siphon feed JGA with the #80 aircap. Still got it and it still works great.

This is the Mercedes vs. Ford mindset. Both get you to work but hey the Mercedes is the best right even if an alternator cost $1500 instead of $200. Dude, it's marketing and it makes the world go around. SATA has done a damn fine job of doing it.

[86camaroman]

i do own 2 sata digital 2 guns one is the rp why do you have 13 satas if you love devilbiss so much and for the guy who is buying both lph400 and sata rp the lph400 is supposed to be the best base gun on the market never used it myself but heard great things about it in my experience the only gun compared to sata is iwata the iwata w400 is like the rp sata both high pressure guns my friend has the devilbiss plus but guesss wich gun he wants to borrow all the time yep my sata rp if you ask 100 people all 100 would have a different answer so you just have to try them for yourself to see my point is based on the fact that money is no concern i have used harbor freight guns before and gotten perfect results i may have had to do a little more work in the end but its possible to get great results with $20 guns as well alot of it depends on your skill level if you cant paint then wether you have a sata or harbor freight gun you still cant paint with alot of todays finishes you can make mistakes and still get a perfect job if you are willing to cut and buff alot of hobbyist dont like that step and i know professionals hate it as well messy time consuming but in the end it pays off

[Len]

I've been spraying paint for 40 years and I've never gotten a "perfect" job out of the gun. I've used Satas, Iwatas, DeVilbiss, Binks and other spray guns as well as many different paint brands. I'll bet that your view of perfection and mine are quite different. I have done and seen some work that is very good but never a "perfect" paint job right out of the gun. I guess it's possible but I've never seen it.

[86camaroman]

i didnt mean i have gotten a perfect job what i meant is about as close to perfect as you can get where as a harbor freight gun i may have to color sand with 800 or 1000grit paper then work up to 2000grit instead i can start with 2000grit but if you go by factory standards now days the new cars are so peely its unbelievable anytime i am doing a panel i have to try to make the orange peel match the rest of the car i know i can do a better then factory paint job with no cut and buff with the sata

[barthmonster]

Camaroman,

Was the Mandarin Orange Vespa cut-n-buffed? With 2000 then I'm guessing. That bike looked really good. Use the Transtar clear again?

[Mooch]

i didnt mean i have gotten a perfect job what i meant is about as close to perfect as you can get where as a harbor freight gun i may have to color sand with 800 or 1000grit paper then work up to 2000grit instead i can start with 2000grit but if you go by factory standards now days the new cars are so peely its unbelievable anytime i am doing a panel i have to try to make the orange peel match the rest of the car i know i can do a better then factory paint job with no cut and buff with the sata

Where you located at ?I would like to see one of those no buff paint jobs better than factory. Mooch

[86camaroman]

good old indiana is where i am at and no the mandarin orange was omni silver basecoat and sem mandarin orange i did use the transtar clear on it then next day sanded and shot one more coat of clear then next day knocked what little peel if any down with 2000grit and buffed the sata does spray candys very nicely mooch you dont think todays new cars have alot of peel in them a true flawless paint job is in the body work and not the gun doesnt matter how good you lay the paint on if the body work sucks it will look like a shiny piece of crap where you from mooch i usually only do 1 or 2 cars a year mostly i do motorcycle painting a lot easier and pays just as good

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

To answer your question. I collect, as a hobby, paint guns. What I do with them is primarily woodworking and piano refinishing but I like to paint cars too so I've done several. I've collected spray guns for a very long time. I do have an Iwata LPH400-LV with both aircaps and it is true that the new purple cap does an absolutely amazing job with basecoat which is what it's exclusively built for. It also does this job with only 8 psi of air which is even weirder.

Don't get me wrong I love SATA's guns but there is a difference between marketing, perceived value, bragging rights and the quality of the paint sprayed. All I'm saying is that the PLUS and the RP are absolutely indistinguishable from each other if all you look at is the paint.

[X711]

Dennis, did I read that right for the Iwata lph400-lv, Only 8psi.

What size fan does it produce for that air spec.

Thanks.... ><

[barthmonster]

I had a very dificult time deciding between Iwata W/400 and LPH-400. finally decided on W/400. What they told me was the LPH-400 is HVLP and the W/400 is just about the finest atomizing paint gun in the world. The purple aircap is only for the LPH-400 and only for basecoat, and makes the LPH-400 atomize like the W/400 already does (but it does it at a lower 8 psi!!). So I went with the W/400 and it should be here any day.

[Len]

I had a very dificult time deciding between Iwata W/400 and LPH-400. finally decided on W/400. What they told me was the LPH-400 is HVLP and the W/400 is just about the finest atomizing paint gun in the world. The purple aircap is only for the LPH-400 and only for basecoat, and makes the LPH-400 atomize like the W/400 already does (but it does it at a lower 8 psi!!). So I went with the W/400 and it should be here any day.

You should know that atomization is only one part of the performance and that the W-400 is a "high pressure" (older technology) spray gun. It's going to tend to generate more runs and dry spots than HVLP or compliant guns. For the person who paints occasionally HVLP is usually preferred because it's easier to control and generates a more consistant finish using less material with less overspray. Unless you are absolutely against cutting and polishing it's usually best to go with HVLP but even with high pressure atomization you usually will cut and polish to get the finish flat.

[barthmonster]

I understand. I checked and the W/400 has 11.5# at the aircap and does exceed 65% efficient. IWATA says this is the gun that made their company. This means to me that it was close to HVLP and didn't miss it by much. I have experience with conventional equipment (old siphon gun) and have developed a feel for painting with the old stuff, so I figured this gun would be a good compromize between 'close to HVLP' and old-type guns. Thanks Len for your pointers and I'll let everyone know how I did or how it worked out, even if I royally screw it up!

[86camaroman]

the iwata w400 is in the same class as the plus and the rp i am pretty sure of it its a compliant gun as well i think

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

X711, 8 is somewhat high I've done it with as little as 6. The fan is enormous. Check out Dr. Gun's message board on ASET's website (Iwata's automotive distributor) where he publishes his recommendations for using the purple aircap. You will be shocked. It is EXCLUSIVELY for basecoat. You cannot do clear with it or anything other than basecoat, but for basecoat it's amazing. Particularly with pearls and metallics. Prior to this aircap I considered the SATA Nr2000 to be the best basecoat gun (although it sucks for clear in my opinion compared to the RP, PLUS or T1 compliant). After the purple aircap there is no doubt Iwata trumped the competition for this particular application. You can fart as much air as you need to run the LPH400-LV with this purple aircap.

[Mooch]

You guys kill me. Just because you think the Sata is the best gun made we all should think the same. I would take the plus in a heartbeat over the sata.

Why it comes with 3 tips and sprays as well. Both for free I would still take the plus. I'm very happy you love your Sata . But it is only a tool . Mooch

[Tung Fu]

I know this thread is old as Dirt, but I know some people still want to know the answer which is how I stumbled on this thread. Not sure whats out now but I use a SATA NR2000 with 1.3 tip that I clear with. I was using another SATA that was given to me. I got better results from a $12 harbor freight gun....Not knocking SATA by NO means for they have proven themselves beyond a shadow of a doubt...Its just the Gun I was using is having some issues. I took it apart to clean it and see where someone has put a set of Pliars on the threads, there is a plastic Gasket between the tip and the body that was damaged...it just needs new parts. Now how it will spray after that???? who knows.
That NR2000 brings the HYDE though...I love it.
I Have never used Iwata for anything other than Airbrushing which I find them Superior to ALL popular brands like Paasche, which I learned on. The Iwata Eclipse is my choice for Air Brush.
Now having said all that, Since I just got my shop up and waiting on Electrical to be be completed, I will be pricing my paint jobs to supplement my Next gun...and RP Digital. So, like my man said when Money isn't an issue get the Best. The Best for the money may be, to some, the Plus or the Iwata. The Best for the money for me, Simply will be the RP. Just my $5 worth.. Sorry for the length.

[mmooney84]

I bought a Sata Jet 90 the other day on Ebay for $75 bucks just to hold me over until I could buy a Sata RP or the Iwata LV. I was disappointed at first because there was an inch of primer dried in it. I spent a whole day cleaning the damn thing. Went to spray with it the first time and got runs bad! I wasnt use to the amount of material coming out. I turned the fluid down alittle and now I have been spraying real good results. I think once I get my next gun I will keep this one for a sealer gun.

[Len]

I bought a Sata Jet 90 the other day on Ebay for $75 bucks just to hold me over until I could buy a Sata RP or the Iwata LV. I was disappointed at first because there was an inch of primer dried in it. I spent a whole day cleaning the damn thing. Went to spray with it the first time and got runs bad! I wasnt use to the amount of material coming out. I turned the fluid down alittle and now I have been spraying real good results. I think once I get my next gun I will keep this one for a sealer gun.

I sprayed with a Jet 90 for 10 years and never thought I'd find a better gun but what I learned later was that the high pressure of the 90 caused more runs and dry spots than HVLP guns. I purchased a Sata NR2000 and found it gave me much better control and I used less material.

I used the NR2000 (HVLP) for another 5 years and found my work was much more even and I still use it from time to time. However now I've used a couple of other guns that I like much better. I like the Plus (reduced pressure) gun because it applies top coats as smooth as much more expensive guns and parts, like tip and seals, are easy to get. Parts for Sata guns are becoming more and more difficult to get because they are not allowed to be sold online. The new DeVilbiss Tekna gun is a very high quality gun that is both HVLP and Compliant depending on the air cap being used. The Tekna is about the best gun in my collection at the moment.

[mmooney84]

When I get ready to buy a new spray gun I might have to look into that Tekna. I have a Devilbiss GTI millenium and it lays base better than any other gun I have used. So I know Devilbiss is a good brand.

[another2centsworth]

Just got my "670PLUS" for a dedicated base gun from LEN.
It shot bright island blue metallic beautifully.
I decided to shoot the clear with it just to see what it's like with a 1.3 tip.
Great!
The difference I see, other than the "PLUS" being less than half the price, is that the Sata seems to be machined to closer tolerances (trigger assembly).
I can fly with the SATA (1.4 tip)....It is a fine gun.

I'm gonna put the 1.4 in my "Plus" to see if I can pick up some speed. I'm sure the bigger tip will bring me up to my SATA's speed.

I love the way the "PLUS" laid down metallic! Nice and evenly smooth as butter!

The "PLUS" is fantastic.....my money was well spent...Thanks LEN!

PS Make sure the tip is snugged down.....I got an intermittent pulse when I sprayed thinner through it first.

[MattWest]

I spray at a bodyshop everyday and have sprayed with many diffrent guns I personaly own a durablock007,Sata3000RP,Tekna,Plus,Sharp TitaniumT1,all are good guns.My favorite feeling gun is my sata very comfortable the best spraying gun out of all the ones I own to me is the 007 it sprays an extremly even pattern. I 'f I were going to buy one gun I would by another 007 my kit came with three intercangebleheads 1.3,1.4 ,1.8 It is truly an all in one gun.Back 2 the Rp vs Plus I would have to say Rp not that the spray pattern is any better than the plus It's the feel of the RP you have so much more control with the Rp which equals less fatigue own an overall paint job

[rons]

When I get ready to buy a new spray gun I might have to look into that Tekna. I have a Devilbiss GTI millenium and it lays base better than any other gun I have used. So I know Devilbiss is a good brand.

I ordered a Tekna copper 1.2/1.3 alum cup with digital regulator. It arrived the
next day. The digital readout is a replaceable item, no battery compartment.
I don't care for that idea. I am returning the gun because the body had a deep
scratch through the anodize down to the bare aluminium. I have second thoughts
about replacing it with a Sagola 4400 or Sata rp 1.2.

My first hvlp was the GTI. I wish they had plated the body of it.