electric sanders

[smrcalidiv]

i was curious about buying an electric sander because i only have a small compressor and it wont run and air da. i have seen a 1/3 and 1/4 electric sander that looked like they may do the trick. is it possible to use these with wet sand paper? obviously i wouldnt drench it because its electric but still....thank in advance and this site is pretty cool, i have been looking for something like this to get some questions answered.

[SamG]

If I'm not mistaken, you're asking if you could use an electric DA to water sand with...I don't think you'll find anyone who would recommend that you do that, as even misting the surface with water then sanding COULD potentially lead to disastrous results. If you want to use an electric DA, then go for it...but don't get water close to it.

If you want a sander to use with water, you could try one of the el-cheapo jitterbugs, but it'd have to be air-powered. When it conked-out, throw it out and get another.

I have a Hutchins water-bug sander which is basically an expensive jitterbug that has water running through one hose, and air through another. I've owned it for 10 years or so, and it's seen MAYBE 5 hours use. I find it practically worthless. I can do the same work with a good random orbit sander without the water and twice as fast.

SamG

[smrcalidiv]

i simply dont have a large enough compressor to run any type of air sander, so basically youre saying NO to any combo of water and electric sander? i would using 400 grit and above so i only care about using wet sand paper.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

The only problem is the water. I have used my Bosch random orbit sander to color sand many clearcoated items (primarily pianos) with microfinishing film. It worked great in this application. One point is that you need a variable speed electric RO sander since 3M microfinishing film (260L) doens't really like being used at high speeds as it clogs and pigtails more easily when run too fast, and single speed electric RO sanders are too fast. Slow one down to about half speed and they do a fine job a color sanding clearcoat.

The major problem with electrics is their poor weight distribution. They're too tall, are top heavy due to the electric motor, and are not well balanced like the AirVantage which keeps the weight nice and low.

Wet sanding is something that I've never had great success with using an orbital machine. I've got a Hutchins Waterbug along with a conventional Hutchins jitterbug which both suck at wet sanding. The only sander that I've got that I've been very successful wet sanding with is my National Detroit model 300 which is a very unusual dual pad straight line sander. Basically I think wet sanding is fundamentally a manual sanding method.

[smrcalidiv]

the one i was looking at was a 1/3 sheet sander, it looked like it had a nice and low profile and good weight distribution across its length. so what would you guys recommend for prepping, a soft block? wet sanding is what im talking about.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

Please explain which part of "Do not use an electric sander to sand wet" is it that you are failing to understand? Ask the question in any manner you wish but this was, is and will always be the correct answer.

A convential orbital sander, which is what you're implying is what you want to use, sucks even when you've got a very high quality air version as I explained that my two Hutchins models do at wet sanding and these have superb speed control.

It's a bad idea to use a $25 Wal-Mart palm sander to wet sand. It is possible to use very fine (P600 - P800) dry papers (3M 216U being an excellent one as well as Carborundum Premier Red which is also available in extremely fine grades up to P1200 on such a sander but get it out of your head to try wet sanding with one. HOW CLEAR DO WE NEED TO MAKE THIS??

[smrcalidiv]

damn dick, i guess you only get one chance to ask a question around here. if you read my last post you can see that i understood you perfectly clear and i was asking what i should use instead of the electric sander IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU??

[Phil V]

Just out of curiosity - what do you plan on wetsanding ? (I promise not to jump down your throat, heheheh). The reason I ask that is because just about any operation that you would wetsand can be dry sanded just as well, at least automotive paint related.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

"the one i was looking at was a 1/3 sheet sander, it looked like it had a nice and low profile and good weight distribution across its length. so what would you guys recommend for prepping, a soft block? wet sanding is what im talking about."

Where in this verbatim copy of your previous message is there any indication that you were NOT talking about an electric sander. DICK!

You come on here ask insipid questions, are given correct and honest answers along with excellent alternative methods that would enable you to use an electric palm sander and achieve good results. You then insult the people that are providing this advice to you. So who’s the DICK, dick?

Incidentally, you’re not too good with punctuation either. I guess the schools in Sacramento aren’t that good.

[smrcalidiv]

i wanted to get all of the rock chips out of my headlights, i have already sanded them by hand, but it took forever and i just did one. i was considering buying a new set but i kinda wanted to try this, it would be cheaper if it works, and i'd have a new tool.
alright dennis, i'm going to make an attempt to get this resolved, because this site is cool and i dont want to start any stupid arguements, so here goes:
1. i indicated that i was NOT considering using an electric sander when i asked this, " so what would you guys recommend for prepping, a soft block?"
the first half of my post was just a reply to most sanders design that was discussed.
2. contrary to what you say, i did not simply come on here and start insulting people at random, but when someone says , "Please explain which part of "Do not use an electric sander to sand wet" is it that you are failing to understand? " and, "HOW CLEAR DO WE NEED TO MAKE THIS??" you're bound to get an answer like mine.
3. as for my punctuation, i wasn't aware that i was writing and english paper. no, i don't care to use proper punctuation on a forum, it's not because i can't, i just don't want to, you didn't indent any of your paragraphs, but that's ok, because im sure you know that, and you would because you went to such a better school than me.

I AM SORRY DENNIS N. SCHMIDT, CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

Go here. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Q9KzYsPDdaP0I8yizeID_Sx0C _IcFQEAJidRU0!

For this you can easily use an electric RO sander which you can find fairly cheaply. Most autobody supply stores will let you buy the microfinishing film a disc at a time or you could buy a six inch disk and cut it to fit a block type orbital sander.

In the future it is better to ask a question which asks how to do a specific job such as this rather than assume for example you need to do wet sanding when you in fact don't.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

The Trizact part might be a little hard. The reason is not the water, which in this case is used in such small quantity that it is self absorbed by the Trizact so that it really doesn't matter, it's the fact that Trizact only comes with the Hookit II attachment system which is only supported by 3M pads that only fit air DA sanders. (5/16" stud attachment) For this step you could use a soft foam pad and Meguire's P3000 grit wet or dry paper used wet by hand. It will take longer but it works. Or, if you can find it, P4000 Abralon which is straight Hookit backed material and will work with an electric DA. This too is used moist and poses little electrical shock hazard due to the sponge nature of the Abralon.

[smrcalidiv]

thank you, next time ill be more clear as to the job type. from every tech article, people were using 1000-1500 wet sanding, progressively. thats what i did and it took awhile and i still didnt get all the chips out. its not that theyre that deep, i think its just a combo of very fine paper, and how clear it needs to be to look good.

[AlexeiVT]

Since you've described the task you need to accomplish...you might well be better served by just sticking w/ a more simple, tried and true approach...that being, wet sanding w/ various grades of paper, used wet, wrapped around a squeegee.

You stated you are sanding chips out of headlights...I just recently performed a similar task on my yellowing plastic lenses. This time, I first hacked off the aiming protrusions, to make subsequent sanding and polishing much quicker.

When using wet sandpaper, allow it to soak in warm water for a bit, and add a little dish soap to aid in the cutting action and lube the surface. Don't work a piece of paper beyond it's usefulness, as the finer grades wont be as effective, for as long as the coarser ones were.

In my case, I actually started w/ 80 grit dry...which is pretty coarse considering the task at hand, but I used it wrapped around a small wooden block, to concentrate leveling what remained of the plastic nubs, leveling them to the surface, being careful not to scratch anymore area than needed. After that, I took permanent marker, and went over the areas I left the 80 grit scratch in...in essence, this served as a guide coat, remaining in the valleys of the scratches for a visual key to how the progress was going.

I then stepped up through 240, 320, 400, 600-800, 1200, and finally 2000...all used wet. Realistically, you don't need to step through all those grades, but that's what I had on hand, and each "thorough and proper" sanding step, just makes it that much easier to polish up in the end. The 1200 is sufficient to end w/, as most componds used w/ a pad on an electric buffer, will get out those or finer.

As a guide to let you know what is really going on while you are sanding, start w/ a less agressive grit, say 320 or so (only the level of damage and depth you are trying to get to, can determine what is futile effort, and when to get a little coarse when lots of material needs to be removed)...Always sand those coarser grits, w/ the paper wrapped around some sort of backing, the small 2"x3" rubber squeegee is my preference.

As you go through the process, periodically wipe the surface dry, and/or using a combination of dragging the squeegee over the surface to quickly remove the water and leave a visual indicator of suface conditions (again, you could use permanent marker in the pits of the lense, to serve as a giud to your progress)...try to not spend too much time directly chasing the pit, as you want to blend the area and avoid distorting the lens.

It is time consuming, but rewarding, cheaper than replacing, and the simple technique has it's place in bringing back the lustre of all sorts of things...basically it's just a colorsanding practice.

Now, on the other hand...possible reasons to avoid going w/ a dry electric on plastic, would seem to be several fold...if you're talking inexpensive, that most certainly will mean higher operating speeds, and longer throw, which will translate to more heat being generated in the process...it's difficult to say for sure, but once you get to the point of heating up the lens too much and making it gum up/melt a bit, you'd be right back to handsanding anyway.

Just like anything else, there is likely a way to do a satisfactory job w/ an electric sander...but by the same token, you can do the job just as well w/out one.

After the sanding stages are done, it's machine compounding out the 1200 or finer scratches, followed by a different bonnet and polish, then some wax (or you could always use something like SureFinish/TrueFinish).

Best of luck.

[Phil V]

smrcalidv, I'm confused - are you trying to sand out stone chips in a plastic headlight lens or metal headlight door/covers ? a broader explanation of what you are trying to accomplish would help us.

[smrcalidiv]

the plastic lens of an 01 mustang headlight, they are road worn and hazy